hi, everyone. i'm tamron hall. following developing news right now. confirmation within the past hour, president obama will unveil his plan for curbing gun violence before noon tomorrow. >> i can tell you that tomorrow the president and the vice president will hold an event here at the white house to unveil a package of concrete proposals to reduce gun violence and prevent future tragedies like the one in newtown,

connecticut. >> white house press secretary jay carney also said the president will announce comprehensive action including assault weapons ban, a ban on high capacity magazine clips and closing big loopholes in back ground checks. all of as governors of new york, delaware and maryland take action to pass some of the strictest laws on guns in our nation. let me bring in our political panel. former pennsylvania governor ed rendell, a nbc news political analyst and molly ball, reporter for "the atlantic" and chris van hollen will join us here shortly. governor rendell, the announcement is coming down tomorrow. the president promised that he wanted to act fast. is he at least timewise living up to what he said? >> no question. and this is good news for all of us who believe we need sensible gun control laws in the united states of america. the president is putting the full weight and prestige of the white house behind this. this is a big event tomorrow. the 19 things he can do that are

executive power, he can do to tighten up the reporting system but the big three are the three you mentioned in your lead-in. getting rid of high capacity magazines, number one. getting rid of assault rifles, number two. number three, no one purchases a gun in this country without a thorough background check. they have do go through congress and the only way we're going to get them is if the president leads and all of us fighting this fight for decades get rebind him in a big way. >> molly, there's new polling out. two new polls of "the washington post" and abc news and the pew research center shows 60% of americans support a ban on assault weapons. we know that the nra has rejected any idea or notion of a ban on assault weapons and even some congressmen and members of the house of representatives and senate would oppose a ban on assault weapons seeing it as extreme. a few democrats used that language. nevertheless, if the president did not include a comprehensive plan which addresses this issue

of high magazine -- high capacity magazines and assault weapons, telling the american public the newtown tragedy is the most difficult day of your presidency, if you don't take big action then those really are just words. >> i think that's exactly right. and i think that what you're basically saying is that part of what the president is going to announce will be symbolic and not have that great of a chance of passage and part of it will be practical measures that do have at least some slim chance of making it through this congress. you see in those polls that the idea of universal background checks and of closing the gun show loophole, a much more of a gaping exemption than a loophole given that 40% of gun purchases are done that way, that has a lot more public support. you see 80%, 90% of the majority of the public, the activists on this issue tell me that that is the thing they have the most

optimism for out of the proposals that do have to make it through congress. >> you bring up the nra, and 06bly, these are not lawmakers that make up the nra and we are seeing to your point with these new numbers out, a divide with its memberships on what it believes should happen next but we know they poured in millions, some $20 million in the last election cycle. i'm curious what you think regarding their strategy from the wayne la pierre and say tomorrow and something that caught the eye of folks here on "morning joe" and around the country. this new app that the nra has put out on itunes. it is a practice shooting game, if you will. it's recommended for kids as young as 4 years old. let me play what joe scarborough, a conservative, said about this example. >> how sick are these people? that are running a great organization. a proud organization. how sick are these people that have commandeered the nra and

made them in to an extremism organization for survivalists and gun manufacturers? >> joe -- >> how many millions of dollars have people made over the slaughter of innocents and now the nra is doing this? >> when southern conservatives like joe come out and say -- refer to them as sick people, who have commandeered the nra, does that give the president leverage? >> there's no question the entire thing is a public relations disaster for the nra. their strategy in the past has often been to stay out of sight and to hope that these things blow over. i think it's a testament to the amount of momentum behind the issue that they have to be out front and be a voice on this issue. at the same time, i can't -- i don't think it's helped them. i think if anything, it's further marginalized them and allowed the president and those who favor reforming gun laws to really gain an advantage in this whole debate.

>> it's interesting, governor rendell. governor of kansas was on earlier saying that the folks in kansas not looblging for new laws out of washington but mother jones, the liberal or progressive website, labeled out 14 ways obama can push gun control without congress. some of the things on the list, they say actually appoint a full-time atf director. a lot of people might be surprise there had's not a full-time director for the alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives bureau. we know the controversy of the past and say prosecute people that try to buy guns illegally. according to the article, in 2009, people legally prohibited from buying guns tried to get them and 0.1% were pros kutded, governor rendell. >> mother jones is right. those are things we have got to do. look, it's got to be a comprehensive, all-out attack on this. i would disagree slightly with

molly. i don't think chances of passage of those assault rifles and all that's all that slim because there are republican congressmen of suburban areas in philadelphia, for example, four suburban republican congressmen, they vote against an assault rifles ban. they vote against high capacity magazines ban. they vote against mandatory background checks at their own peril in 2014. people in areas like ours -- you talk about kansas but suburban philadelphia, 80% to 90% on the issues a enif you ask if the nra asks those four to vote no, they're asking a lot. those four might be signing their political death warrants if they do that. i'm not sure we want to give up on anything, including the assault weapons ban that's really an assault weapons ban, better than four. let's go for it right now we have the momentum on our side. the nation is outraged. go for it. >> i want to transition to the big topic out of washington, of

course. debt limit. molly, you had a president yesterday say to republicans or the leadership, if you want to come up with ideas of spending cuts, that are to the standard at least that they have asked from the white house, then feel free. but since the president issued that, i don't know if it was a warning or at least a challenge to the republican leadership, we've heard nothing and there are also no meetings even planned regarding the debt ceiling and the inevitable issue that is are faced by those who need to make the decisions for us. >> yeah. we have got this triple deadline coming up. and nobody -- everybody says they don't want to do it at the last minute the way we did with the fiscal cliff but nobody seems to be talking about it yet. you don't have negotiations started. granted we are in a bit of a holding pattern with the inauguration coming up and maybe things start to happen after that but nobody seems to be jumping in proactively for a solution to these issues that are coming up and that's because they're tough decisions.

they're hard. and nobody has something that is universally palatable ready to off offer. >> with that said, will we see a separation of spending cuts the republicans say they want to desperately and separate it from the debt ceiling? as the president said, you can't run out on a meal you have eaten. this is not new debt. this is bills we have acquired. the government and this country must be obligated to do the same. >> well, the president would like to see these negotiated separately. you can color me skeptical of that. >> why are you skeptical? >> it's hard for him to say -- >> what will he do, walk out of the room? you have him drawing sort of a fine line where he says i will negotiate a solution to the other fiscal issue that is are almost simultaneous but talking about the debt ceiling, what? he'll stop participating? given that this is traditionally been a bargaining chip,

traditionally been something that the parties negotiate over, i have a hard time he'll be able to maintain a hard line. >> speaker boehner said he would stop participating in talks directly so i mean the threat is out there. real quick, governor, i have to bring you to the markets and this agency, a second agency, fitch, now warning that it could, all of this could affect the credit rating for the united states when folks start looking at what's happening on wall street, when they hear this threat of credit issues or credit rating for this country. being downgraded. does that expedite the talks here or get even talks started? >> well, i think the president did a great job politically putting the republicans on the spot. if they are the ones who cause us to not meet our debt obligations, i think they risk, again, political retribution and losing the house in 2014. but on the other hand, the president and the house have to get together. nobody wants to go first on the spending cuts.

>> yeah. >> business as you said, they're universal pain and they've got to act in the interest of the country and get together and solve this and do it fast. they ought to not wait until three days before the deadline. >> a pleasure having you both. thank you. is lance armstrong still holding on to secrets? >> he did not come clean in the manner that i expected. it was surprising to me. >> what does oprah mean that she was surprised and that he didn't come clean? more on lance's so-called admission that he was doping and now the justice department is considering joining a lawsuit against lance armstrong. plus, why democratic senator chuck schumer now says he is ready to support former republican senator chuck hagel for defense secretary and what that means for hagel's chances of confirmation. and the first lady teams up with the world's largest retailer to put veterans back to work. details on what the first lady calls walmart's historic and

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lance armstrong's doping confession to oprah could get him in trouble with the department of justice and cost him millions. "wall street journal" reports officials at the justice department recommend joining a federal lawsuit against lance. the suit claims armstrong defrauded the federal government when he accepted sponsorship money from the postal service. if they pursue it and win, the team could owe the government as much as $100 million. and today, on cbs "this morning" oprah confirmed that armstrong

opened up to her in an exclusive interview that airs thursday. >> he did not come clean in the manner that i expected. it was surprising to me. i feel that he answered the questions in a way that he was ready. i didn't get all the questions asked but i think the most important questions and the answers that people around the world have been waiting to hear were answered and certainly answered -- i can only say i was satisfied with the answers. >> with me, david epstein and dave zirin. thank you for for joining us. dave, i'll start with you here in studio. we were talking last week, you were skeptical about how much information he would actually reveal. an you saw that clip where she says he doesn't come completely clean and she was surprised.

>> yeah. well, you know, it's no surprise i think from the people that lance armstrong's been talking to. i talked to someone, for example, he called to give apology and the person said the tenor very much like, well, we were all kind of doing it and expecting contrition and him above and beyond things we already know, i think this only confirm what is we expected. >> what does that tell us about his personality? you have written extensively about this man and i heard someone today say he was pathological. everyone's all in the mind of lance armstrong and that he held on to this deception for such a long time and destroyed other people in the process. >> that it's all strategic. look. he's in talks now about saying, well, we might hear this in oprah, willing to give back some of the postal money. he will lose that money in court anyway and more and willing to say he's willing to give it back is just a move. he's deny, deny, deny until there's not a penny to be gained anymore and then see what you

can gain from confessing. >> david, you never hold back. people will tune in to hear lance armstrong's confession. i think most probably assumed at this point with the evidence and the conversations that have taken place he was guilty of something. is there any way this guy can save his name or is it gone for good? >> can lance armstrong save his name? interesting question because cycling is a nish sport. i could ask 100 people to name a cyclist and say lance armstrong and then name two cyclists and 99 people probably look at me like i have no idea but there are reservoirs of people in this country who feel very connected to him because of the fight against cancer, because of of livestrong and the yellow bracelet and whatnot and so i'm curious to see if he can rebuild his reputation but it's very difficult and i'll tell you why. because the next ten years of his life is going to -- a lot of it spent in court. >> yes. >> there is going to be a macy's

thanksgiving day parade of lawyers outside of his house for a chunk of his reportedly $100 million fortune. i mean, because he's spent 15 years arguing with people that he didn't use, suing people, threatening to sue people. and all of this together is going to lead to lawyers who not only seek compensatory but punitive damages and with every court case reminded about the lance armstrong who cheated, not the lance armstrong that did so many years to build the foundation. >> let me wrote a little bit of this. armstrong isn't necessarily a bad guy for doping. he's a bad guy for the way he used the immense power, fame and fortune to attempt to ruin anyone who dared to speak the truth to his avalanche of lies. there are victims of lance armstrong and the only hope is that winfrey didn't let lance brush aside the agrieved parties or the obvious questions. what are the obvious questions at this point, again?

>> one that pops in to my mind is how could you have tried to ruin the lives of people you knew were telling the truth at the time? >> give us an example. >> last night i was talking to mike anderson, a former bike mechanic to lance arm strong and found drugs in his apartment and lance sued him and defamed him and lives in new zealand because he was black balled from cycling in the united states. i said, what could lance say? he said, he ruined me. i don't know what the purpose of me forgiving him would be enit wouldn't be sincere. i think it doesn't matter for people like that what he says. >> how much of this is about lance armstrong? i had a conversation with someone who questioned whether he cares about fans and even that foundation that he wants redemption, be able to walk down the street and maybe how the athletes are adored in our society and have that kind of praise as opposed to being a pariah. >> another great question.

i mean, look. when this is all done, lance armstrong makes fred sanford look like donald trump. if they want him to be brought down a peg or two, he'll be brought down a great deal. i have spoken to people surrounding lance armstrong right now. they say he's coming forward right now for two reasons and they're not really about him trying to restore his stature in the public. the first reason is that the guy's a competition junkie. he wants to compete in triathlons. it's gompbed by the u.s. anti-doping agency and right now he has a lifetime ban so he sees this confessional trying to show candor as a way to get back on the competition train because he misses it so much. the second thing is this issue of him being presented as if he's joe pesci on a ten speed and governing other people's drug use. he wants to combat that perception and he feels and people around him feel that's

unfair. unfortunately, there is a long conga line of witnesses saying that's who he was and that's the toughest thing to overcome because if he challenges it, he's challenging the report and then won't end the lifetime ban. >> if you're not a cycling ban or in to sports overall, that is intriguing tori story about the fall of an athlete. and temptation. we saw it in baseball and other sports and has an impact on kids who look up to them or thinks that's what it takes to be a success. thank you both very much. we'll see what he says on thursday. back to the president's announcement tomorrow on new gun control legislation to pursue. joining me live now, chris van hollen of maryland, top democrat on the house budget committee. thank you again for joining me. >> great to be with you. >> i want to start off with guns because we know now tomorrow morning the president will outline what he would like to see and mother jones has an intriguing article on 14 ways

obama can push gun control without congress. with the anticipation already that some of your colleagues, republican colleagues and maybe even a few democrats in the senate could be roadblocks for any solid legislation. >> well, tamron, first of all, i hope that the congress will adopt common sense gun safety measures. i think the mood of the country is clearly in favor of that. all the public opinion polling shows that but i also think that the president has a responsibility to act on his own authority where he has that authority. where he has the ability to take important steps to protect the safety of the american people and our children without congressional action he should certainly be taking those measures but that should not mean that congress avoids its own responsibility there. there's some things we can only do through legislation and congress should get moving on t it. >> let me play a sound bite.

here's what it is. >> in my district and many others, overwhelmingly, people in kansas not looking for new laws out of washington. they're looking for more involvement in the communities, families at the state level rather than a new washingtonian law. >> that's a colleague anticipating at least i think in his tone no need for a new laws out of washington. what is your response to that? >> well, obviously, we should do everything we can at a community level. we all know that we have people who can travel across state boundaries. there are some things tough do at the national level. we already have a criminal background check. the problem is we have a big loophole in it and so the question that's being posed by many of us to our colleagues who are opposing all of these measures is, what's wrong with requiring 100% of gun purchasers to have a criminal background check? this no way limits people's ability to have a gun for

protection at home or for hunting or whatever purpose. but why not have a criminal background check? >> here's your colleague saying at least the people in his state, his words, do not want to see new laws out of washington. period. >> well, i actually think the public polling in all parts of the country shows that people support these common sense measures when they understand what they are. when you don't have the washington-based gun lobby trying to distort what these gun laws do. as the president said the other day, the washington-based gun lobby uses scare tactics to suggest that even when you want to take a common sense measure like a universal background check, that the next step is that the federal government will take everyone's guns away. that is nonsense. so when the american people focus and understand what's being proposed, not the distortions they hear from some of the washington lobbies, then the polling shows they do

support those measures so it's really important that we have a good national conversation so people understand exactly what it is that's being proposed and what's not being proposed. >> many wondering where the talks are right now regarding the debt ceiling and the issues surrounding it and play again another one of your colleagues in congress, republican congressman greg walden on "the daily rundown" today with todd chuck regarding the debt limit and the problems he sees ahead. >> i think passing a clean debt limit is problematic for the american people, as well as for the congress and the country. i think we should find common ground here to look at spending reforms for the long term that get us on a path to reducing debt and deficit. the issue is can't we get the president to sit down with us and not tell us it's our way or the highway or his way or the highway? that doesn't produce the kind of collaborative response to a problem. >> so i don't know whose highway specifically he wants to be on here but the bottom line is

congressman walden sees at least from his vantage point that the debt limit should be tied to spending cuts and that's the road he'd like to pursue. where are things right now? >> well, here's where things are right now and the president's been very clear. the president's willing to negotiate a way to reduce the debt through a combination of cuts, but also, through tax reform. but what he's not willing to negotiate and he should not noer negotiate is over whether the congress pays for the bills. the congress is saying if we don't make the changes the way they want to, they're threatening to tank the united states economy. again, the debt ceiling, it is really important that people understand, this is not about expanding your capacity to start new government programs. this is paying for bill that is are already due and owing so not paying it would be like, tamron, you and i buying stuff on the credit card and then deciding after we bought that stuff we

are not going to pay for it. if the united states does that, it will tank our credit rating and economy and make any discussion of what would happen going over the fiscal cliff look like child's play. that's why the president said, look, he is not going to allow the american economy to be held hostage in that way. he is absolutely prepared to continue to negotiate ways to reduce our budget deficit and that's exactly what we should be doing but we shouldn't be doing it under the threat, the republican threat, of tanking the economy by undermining the full faith and credit of the united states government. we have never done that in the history of this republic and we shouldn't start doing it now. >> all right. congressman van hollen, always a pleasure to speak with you. thank you, sir. >> likewise. the house will vote on the massive hurricane sandy bill and things are heated on the house floor today. >> we are asking, we are

pleading and we shouldn't have to beg for money for the northeast to be able to survive. >> but some republicans say they will vote against the bill despite calls from members in their own party to get it done. but first, today's money minute. here's a look at wall street. you see there, the dow down slightly. we'll be right back. [ man ] i've been out there most of my life. you name it...i've hooked it. but there's one... one that's always eluded me. thought i had it in the blizzard of '93. ha! never even came close. sometimes, i actually think it's mocking me. [ engine revs ] what?! quattro!!!!! ♪

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turn to capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell. i imagine the schumer news good news, not that he would not support hagel, but obviously, people were following the lead at least in tone from the beginning of all of this. >> reporter: well, chuck schumer expressed real concerns about some of the positions that chuck hagel held, and certainly, they knew each other over time. their paths crossed and really chuck schumer wanted an opportunity to have a face to face meeting. he made that request. as you point out, they met at the white house. they spent a considerable amount of time and a couple of issues that stood out for chuck schumer and others, the positions that hagel has held with respect to iran and israel, would he, in fact, support the fullest protection of israel if there were any kind of a threat from iran that materialized? also, issues related to gay americans and would there be an issue with that, especially given the fact he's serving a democratic president?

so they spent the time, they talked it out and very important indication that schumer will encourage his colleagues in the senate to go along and support the hague el nomination, as well. one of the sort of dances that's going to happen here is typically a former senator or senator put up for nominee in this way is confirmed pretty easily among friends in the senate who know them and have a personal history so to have resistance to chuck hagel has been one of the more unusual circumstances. you see the contrast talking about john kerry for sost. you have people in both parties coming forward supportive for his nomination. schumer and boxer, two of the prominent jewish american senators saying they feel confident that hagel will protect israel, they think that's important step and the views evolved and in this kind of a new job where he confirmed as the head of the defense department, he would have

different responsibilities and look at the issues in a new way different than he was serving here as one of the 100 in the senate so it's a pivotal day, more of the face-to-face meetings expected. that doesn't happen for everyone so there's stale spotlight on hagel. >> okay. thank you, kelly o'donnell. great lie appreciate that report. they may end up rivals in 2016 but congressman paul ryan said he supports the immigration plan of marco rubio when the party is in need of support of the latino community and one of those things we thought you should know. plus, here's the question -- should the justice department sue lance armstrong to get back sponsorship money? we are talking nearly $100 million. [ male announcer ] ahh... retirement. sit back, relax,

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nate said, right after ben died, he said -- this is tough, but he said, you promised you would protect us. >> yeah.

>> and i did promise them this. >> sure. >> you know? >> yeah. >> yeah. >> so, what do i say to him? i can't change what happened. i know it wasn't our fault. we just sent him to school. but i'll do whatever i can to help protect nate. >> yeah, yeah. >> and protect ben's spirit. >> the mother of ben wheeler, one of the 20 children killed in newtown, connecticut, speaking to rachel maddow on the one-month anniversary of the shootings. they formed the sandy hook promise. we told you about the group of parents who gathered together and joined forces urging change in this country regarding gun laws. it's a tactic politico's roger simon urges readers of the latest column to adopt saying silence cannot only be deafening

but deadly. speak up, speak out. roger joins us. this article struck me, just the tone and to hear you say that year after year the body count goes up. year after year, outrage is expressed. and you call on to -- you call on people to speak out now. what were you feeling and thinking as you were writing these words? >> that ordinary people can make a difference and help people like those poor parents of those children killed at sandy hook. parents can't do it on their own. you can't keep your kid tied to you 24 hours a day. you have to send your kids to school. people need help from their lawmakers. they need sensible gun laws in america. the greatest power of the gun lobby is to intimidate. they intimidate our lawmakers

saying, well, we don't give you anymore money to get re-elected until you vote our way and intimidate citizens, ordinary voters by saying stop exploiting the grief of these parents. stop standing on the graves of the dead. instead, let's wait. have a decency to wait another ten, 20, 30 years. i don't think that's the right message. i think the message is, honoring the dead by passing sensible gun control legislation in this country and demanding that our politicians act. >> you ask in your piece, will this year be any different, comparing it, again, to the tragedies we have all seen and then as you pointed out the silence that often follows. we are going to hear from the president 11:45 eastern time tomorrow. given the makeup of congress and given that these days doesn't seem that they can agree on anything in that town, is it

executive action the right direction? >> i think executive action is the last choice. whatever one president can do, the next president can do -- undo with the swipe of a pen. >> right. >> laws are what we need. i really sense after 20 little children are gunned down in an elementary school america is at a tipping point. and that even our politicians realize that enough is enough. >> but roger, i mean, we are at a tipping point but even some democrats who have said that the ms measures the president is looking at is extreme. the minute you bring up an assault weapons ban, it's frowned upon. we had a republican on from kansas earlier today saying, listen, this is not what my -- people in my state, my constituents want to see. they don't want another law out of washington. >> i don't think the people of

kansas want to see more children gunned down with semiautomatic military-type assault weapons. with hundred-round or two-round clips. i don't think the people of kansas want to see people able to order 6,000 rounds of ammunition over the internet. i think the people of kansas are like the people of the united states. in that they recognize that, look, gun control is an issue where reasonable people can disagree f. the nra wants to protect the rights of hunters to hunt, okay. but when they say, we can't limit the size of an ammunition clip to some sensible number, that we can't check to make sure that an escaped murderer can't go to a gun show and buy a gun or a homicidal maniac can't go to a gun show and buy a gun, that's not sensible anymore, and

most americans i think reject that and if they speak out their legislators will reject this. >> roger simon, thank you very much. we really appreciate you joining me. >> thank you. debate is under way on the house floor for aid for victims of superstorm sandy but the house is at odds over how to pay for the bill. lawmakers from states impacted took to the floor earlier to make impassioned pleas. >> my constituents, the constituents of the northeast, they're not just whining. they're not just uncomfortable. they are devastated! >> there's simply no reason for the delay unless you believe that when disaster strikes we are all on our own. >> the time for recriminations is over. let's stand together as americans and let's get the aid to the people who need it. >> joining me now, nbc news senior political editor mark murray. you have congressman mulvaney,

for example, saying he would not support this bill but peter king, a vocal republican, begging his own party to get on board here. >> as you mentioned, congressman mulvaney of south carolina introduced an amendment regarding how you end up paying for this $50 billion in relief for hurricane sandy. that amendment would allow cuts across the board in discretionary spending to pay for it. our nbc congressional producer frank thorpe believes that the legislation, the whole aid, all 50 billion of it will be passed but it will be interesting to see some conservative republicans that want to enforce fiscal discipline to try to make -- to insert that amendment in there to have some cuts in there to pay for the relief. >> and quickly, some of the criticism with mulvaney anyway, he wanted the aid when disaster

hit his state and what's seen as a hypocrisy coming out of washington, d.c. >> that's right. there are some house republicans who are completely consistent on this. they believe that spending is out of control and the only way to enforce spending discipline is to have cuts when you're spending more money. as you mentioned, tamron, the real sign of consistency is how do you end up voting on the measures when it's affecting your own community? after the terrible 9/11 terrorist attack, there weren't any discretionary spending cuts or taxes raised for iraq and afghanistan wars and so a lot of people particularly in the northeast asking why should there be cuts and potential tax increases to help pay for aid when the next time around some people are going to need aid for the next type of hurricane or disaster? >> all right. mark murray, thank you very much. we'll see what happens later today. walmart announced one of the biggest hiring commitments for veterans in history. the super store is pledging to

hire any honorably discharged vet in his or her first year off active duty and launches on memorial day. according to walmart, the program expected to open up 100,000 jobs for vets over the first five years. first lady obama called it historic and urged other companies to follow suit. unstu. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose. thanks. that's the cold truth!

this reduced sodium soup says it may help lower cholesterol, how does it work? you just have to eat it as part of your heart healthy diet. step 1. eat the soup. all those veggies and beans, that's what may help lower your cholesterol and -- well that's easy [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. with scottrader streaming quotes, any way you want. fully customize it for your trading process -- from thought to trade, on every screen.

and all in real time. which makes it just like having your own trading floor, right at your fingertips. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. try our easy-to-use scottrader streaming quotes. it's another reason more investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade. closing bell at the new york stock exchange will ring just about an hour from now. wall street lower with investors watching the debt debate happening in washington. the dow up nine points right now following announcement late yesterday from tim geithner that the u.s. could hit the debt ceiling as soon as mid-february. joining me now, host of "power lunch," tyler matheson. good to see you again. >> hi, tamron. >> we have the threat of our credit rating being downgraded here as wall street keeps an eye just like people at home what's happening in d.c. with the latest battle.

>> this is really the biggy. compared with the fiscal cliff which was by all accounts a roughly familiar tax and spending debate, this one has far more import because it will determine whether among other things the united states continues to make good on the obligations it has already undertaken. interest and principal on the debt we have borrowed. our credit rating which was so famously downgraded in the summer of 2011 hangs in the balance here. and of course, people on both sides of the aisle are fighting over whether it is fair game to use the debt ceiling as a piece of political leverage to get the government to stop its spending. on the one hand, people on the right say, well, what else are we going to use? we are engaging in sort of financial madness spending so much so we have to use whatever tool is available there and you heard the president yesterday,

tamron, saying this is like taking the economy hostage by threatening not to pay debts that we have already incured. >> tyler, as i mentioned, the dow up just a little bit today. how soon will we see perhaps start to see an impact on the arrows on the screen? >> i think beginning to see a little bit of sort of trepidation begin to creep in. and as the rhetoric continues to heat up and as we get closer to that point at which despite all of the work that the treasury department can do to move money around, where really start coming down to where the government says, we cannot continue to pay either federal salaries or benefits to retirees or obligations to defense workers or contractors. then it's going to start to really get forgnarly and not surprised to see volatility and decline in the market we haven't seen since 2011. >> we won't forget that summer.

thank you very much. i greatly appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, the gut check and honing in on lance armstrong. [ female announcer ] need help keeping your digestive balance? try the #1 gastroenterologist recommended probiotic. align. align naturally helps maintain digestive balance. ♪ ooh, baby, can i do for you today? ♪ try align today. i just served my mother-in-law your chicken noodle soup but she loved it so much... i told her it was homemade. everyone tells a little white lie now and then. but now she wants my recipe [ clears his throat ] [ softly ] she's right behind me isn't she?

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there's a lot going on today. here are some things we just thought you should snow. congressman paul ryan back and marco rubio's immigration reform plan posted on his facebook. ryan said he agrees with the framework with a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants and provided a link to rubio's interview with "the wall street journal." florida governor rick scott said he gave back the dog named reagan to the previous owner. he adopted it in 2010 in the campaign for governor and asked his facebook followers to even help him choose the name. the governor told reporters, reagan was a rescue dog with problems and scare the living daylights out of people. they now own another rescue dog. time for the "gut check." in an interview airing thursday,

lance armstrong admits he used performance-enhancing drugs. depending on the details that could mean he violated the contract with the u.s. postal service and gave the team more than $30 million. now the justice department is considering joining a federal lawsuit which if armstrong loses could make him liable for as much as $100 million. what does your gut tell you? should the justice department sue armstrong to get sponsorship money back? go to facebook.come/newsnation. that does it for this edition of "news nation." i'm tamron hall. we've all had those moments. when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost.

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